On The Record: Teacher's union leader objects to guidelines for reopening schools

Merrie Najimy, President of the Massachusetts Teachers Association, joins WCVB's On The Record to discuss plans for reopening schools in the fall.

"I want to caution us: We did not rush into opening the state economy, we cannot rush into opening schools just because the calendar says we have to return to school by August or September."

ED: GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE.IT IS SUNDAY, JULY IF.THE MASSACHUSETTS TEACHERSASSOCIATION PRESIDENT MERRIENAJIMY IS OUR GUEST.SHE HAS A LIST OF CONDITIONS FORREOPENING SCHOOLS THIS FALL, BUTDO THEY COINCIDE WITH THEGOVERNOR’S?LET’S GO "ON THE RECORD."ANNOUNCE FROM WCVB CHANNEL 5,TODAY’S NEWSMAKERS ARE GOING "ONTHE RECORD."ED: WELCOME TO "OTR."I AM ED HARDING ALONG WITH JANETWU.WE CONTINUE TO RESPECT SOCIALDISTANCING PROTOCOLS IN OURSTUDIO.YOU CAN SEE THE GREAT DISTANCEBETWEEN US.THE PRESIDENT OF THEMASSACHUSETTS TEACHERSASSOCIATION IS MERRIE NAJIMY.SHE WAS JUST REELECTED TO HERSECOND TERM IN THE POSITION ANDSPENT NEARLY THREE DECADES AS ACLASSROOM TEACHER HERSELF.THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.IT IS AN IMPORTANT TOPIC.MERRIE: I’M GLAD TO BE HERE.JANET: LET’S GET TO IT.YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH GOVERNORBAKER’S GUIDELINES FOR SCHOOLSREOPENING THIS FALL.CAN YOU GIVE US YOUR TOP THREEOBJECTIONS AND BRIEFLY WHY?MERRIE: YES.FIRST AND FOREMOST, EDUCATORSWANT NOTHING MORE THAN TO BEBACK IN SPACE WITH OUR STUDENT.THERE IS BROAD CONSENSUS AMOEDUCATORS, STUDENTS, FAMILIES,THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY AND THEDEPARTMENT THAT THAT IS THE BESTWAY TO LEARN, BUT IT CANNOT COMEAT THE EXPENSE OF HEALTH ANDSAFETY.RIGHT NOW, THE COMMISSIONER ANDGOVERNOR’S PLAN DO NOT MEETSTRICT ENOUGH STANDARDS.JANET: I ASSUME YOU ARE NOTHAPPY WITH THE SPACING INBETWEEN STUDENTS, ETC., BUT TAMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS,KNOWN FOR ITS CONSERVATIVRECOMMENDATIONS, SIZE WITHBAKER, SAYING THREE FEET ISUFFICIENT AND 60 DOES NOTNECESSARY IF STUDENTS AREWEARING MASKS AND TEACHERS --AND SI FEET IS NOT NECESSARY IFCHILDREN AND TEACHERS AREWEARING MASKS.HOW DO YOU RESPOND?MERRIE: IT IS NUANCED.CERTAINLY IT IS A RESPECTABLEINSTITUTION.THE AAP, HOWEVER, WHAT ALLSCIENTISTS AGR UPON IS THATTHE VIRUS IS EMERGING.THERE IS N YET CONSENSUS INSCIENCE.THE AAP DOES NOT ACTUALLY HAVEPRACTICAL EXPERIENCES IN SCHOOL,AND JUST AS THEY ARE COMING OUTANNOUNCING THEIR SUPPORT,ALTHOUGH IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTETHEY ARE N ABSOLUTISTS.THEY SAY THINGS LIKE THE GOAL ISTO BRING STUDENTS BACK, AND WEBELIEVE CHILDREN ARE NOTDIRECTORS.THE NEXT DAY WE SEE IN THE GLOBETHAT 8%, NEARLY 10%, CHILDRENIN THE DEPARTMENT OF CHILDRENAND FAMILY FACILITIES CONTACTEDCOVID.SO THERE IS NO REAL CONSENSUS ONWHAT IS SAFE.JANET: ARE YOU SAYING THESTUDENTS SHOULD BE AT LEAST SIXFE APART OR NOT IN THECLASSROOM, PERIOD?MERRIE IN AN IDEAL SITUATION,WE WANT TO BRING STUDENTSTOGETHER IN THE BUILDINGS, BUTWE CANNOT RELAX THE STANDARDS TORISK EVERYONE’S HEALTH ANDSAFETY.THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT KIDS.KIDS BRING THE VIRUS TO THEIRPARENTS, WHO BRING IT BACK TOTHE COMMUNITIES WHERE THEY WORKAND EDUCATORS THE SAME.IF EDUCATORS CONTRACT THE VIRUS,THEY GO HOME TO OTHERCOMMUNITIES.IT IS TOO RISKY NOT TO HAVEENOUGH HEALTH AND SAFETYPROTOCOLS.ED: YOU HAVE SET THE PREFERENCESTO HAVE THE STUDENTS IN THEBUILDING IN CLASSROOM AND HAVEFACE-TO-FACE LEARNING.CAN I READ INTO THAT THAT REMOTELEARNING IS LESS EFFECTIVE?WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT REMOTELEARNING NOW THAT WE DID NOTKNOW THREE MONTHS AGO?MERRIE: WHAT WE HAVE CONFIRMEDTHAT WE DID NEW WAS THE BEST WAYTO LEARN IS WHEN PEOPLE ARETOGETHER IN THE CLASSROOM.LEARNING IS AN EMOTIONAL ANDCOOPERATIVE PROCESS.YOU LOSE TOO MUCH BY HAVIN KIDSBE AT HOME BEHIND A SCREEN.HOMES ARE NOT CONDUCIVE TOLEARNING WHEN YOU HAVE ULTIMOKIDS IN TH FAMILY AND PARENTSTRYING TO WORK.AND FOR THOSE WHO SCHOOLERSPHYSICALLY THE SAFEST TO BE,THEY HAVE NOT HOME WITH THEIRTRAUMA DEEPENED BY THE PANDEMIC.JANET: ARE YOU SAYING SIX FEETWOULD BE BETTER AND ACCEPTABLEWITH MASKS AND OTHERSTIPULATIONS IN PLACE?OR ARE YOU SAYING NOT EVEN SIXFEET IS APPROPRIATE?MERRIE: SIX FEET IS GOING TO BEA CHALLENGE, BUT THAT HAS TO BETHE MINIMUM.WHAT IT IS GOING TO TAKE HISFULL FUNDING, AND WE HAVE HAD2000 EDUCATORS A LEAST LAID OFFJUST SINCE TWO WEEKS, THREEWEEKS AGO.WE CANNOT GO BACK TO SCHOOLSSAFELY WITHOUT FULL FUNDING ANDSTAFF AND WITHOUT REAL STRONGSAFETY PROTOCOLS IN PLACE ANDATTENTIVE EQUIPMENT.ED: LET’S TALK ABOUT THEACADEMY.IT SAYS REDUCING STUDEINTERACTIONS IN ELEMENTARYSCHOOLS DOES NOT PROVIDE ENOUGH.IT IS THE ACADEMY WRONG?MERRIE: I THINK THE ACADEMY HASONE POINT VIEW, BUT THESCIENCE CONTINUES TO CHANGE ASTHE DISEASE CONTINUES TO CHANGE,SO WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO DO ISLOOK AT A PHASE-IN APPROACH.IF THE ECONOMY IS OPENING ON ABASE TYPING IN APPROACH, THEN WECAN OPEN SCHOOLS ON A PHASETYPING IN APPROACH.ED: WHICH MEANS YOU BRING INX-NUMBER OF STUDENTS?MERRIE: IT MEANS A VARIETY OFTHINGS.EDUCATORS IN SCHOOLS NEED MORETIME TO PLAN N CURRICULUM THATWILL DEAL WITH THE EMOTIONALTRAUMA THAT KIDS AREEXPERIENCING NOW IN THIS MOMENTOF BLACK LIVES MATTER.IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CHANGEOUR CURRICULUM TO BE MOREANTIRACIST FOCUSED AND WE NEEDTO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TOSET UP LASSOS AND BRING KIDS INA LITTLE AT A TIME TO TEACH THEMTHE PROTOCOLS AND NEW ROUTINES.TO GET THEM ACCLIMATED SO THATWHEN MORE KIDS ARE BACKTOGETHER, IT WILL GO BETTER.JANE LET’S TALK ABOUT YOUROBJECTIONS ON INSUFFICIENT FUNDSFROM THE STATE TO PROVIDE ALLSTAFF AND TEACHERS WITH PERSONALPROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT AND OTHERTHINGS NEEDED.THE BAKER ADMINISTRATION SAYSTHERE IS PLENTY OF MONEY, $202MILLION TO HELP SCHOOLSREOPENING.IS THE GOVERNOR ROMNEY AND THEMONEY IS TOO LITTLE?MERRIE: THE MONEY -- IS THEGOVERN WRONG AND IS THE MONEYTO LITTLE TOMORROW MERRIE: THEMONEY IS TOO LITTLE.IF THIS WERE A FLOOD, THEFEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD STEP INAND PAY FOR ALL WHAT IT TAKES TOMITIGATE.WE HAVE TO HAVE THE SAMEEXPECTATIONS.JANET: WHAT IS YOUR NUMBER?MERRIE: WE DO NOT HAVE A HARDAND FAST NUMBER, BUT IT IS THEOBLIGATION OF THE STATE TOFIGURE OUT THE NUMBER AND FULLYFUNDED, NOT JUST SAY, HERE IS APOOL AND IT GETS SHARED.JANET: IF YOU DO NOT KNOW WHATTHE NUMBER IS, HOW D KNOW $202MILLION IS NOT ENOUGH?MERRIE THERE WAS A REPORT IN"THE GLOBE" SEVERAL WEEKS BACKOF AN ADMINISTRATION ASSOCIATIONOR STATE ASSOCIATION ABOUT MISSTRADERS WHO ESTIMATED $1.8BILLION IN PPE -- ADMINISTRATORSWHO ESTIMATED $1.8 BILLION OFPPE IS WHAT WOULD BE FOR THEAVERAGE SCHOOL DISTRICT IF WEHAVE 400, MULTIPLY THAT BY 1.8,THAT IS MORE THAN $200 MILLION.ED: LET’S TALK ABO LAYOFFS,200 EDUCATORS GOT PINK SLIPSLAST MONTH.WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THE BEACONHILL WILL COME THROUGH TO SAVEMOST OF THESE JOBS?WHICH I’M SURE YOU AGREE AREVITAL.MERRIE: BEACON HILL HAS ACONSTITUTIONAL OBLIGATION ATMINIMUM TO FULLY FUND THESTUDENT OPPORTUNITY ACT, WHICHWAS SIGNED INTO LAW IN THE FALL,AND THEN THEY HAVE THE ABILITYTO RAISE PROGRESSIVE REVENUES ONWEALTHY INDIVIDUALS ANDDURATIONS IN MASSACHUSETTS,WHICH WE SAW WITH THE FAIR SHAREAMENDMENT AS A POPULAR IDEA WITHMASSACHUSETTS VOTERS.ED: I ASSUME IT WILL BE THAT FARMORE DIFFICULT TO TEACH UNDERTHE NEW NORMAL WITH FEWERTEACHERS BECAUSE THERE IS FEWERMONEY, WHICH CREATES LAYOFFS ANDFEWER TEACHERS.I ASSUME IT WILL CREATE MORE OFAN ISSUE INSIDE THE CLASSROOM.MERRIE: RIGHT.WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE DEEPPROBLEMS EXISTED BECAUSE OFPROBLEMS BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.THOSE ARE NOW EXASPERATED.WE ARE BEI ASKED TO DO MOREWITH EVEN LESS THAN WHAT WE HADIN THE PAST, AND THAT WAS NOTSUFFICIENT.ED: IT IS A SIMPLE THING, LIKHOW CAN A TEACHER BE REQUIRED TOTELL SECOND-GRADER TO KEEP AMASK ON HIS OR HER FACE?MERRIE: THI IS THE CENTRAL COREOF EDUCATION.YOU BUILD RELATIONSHIPS WITHYOUR STUDENTS, AND WHEN YOU HAVERELATIONSHIPS OF LOVE INTEREST,NEW ROUTINES AND THINGS LIKETHIS WILL GO BETTER.IT WILL NOT BE PERFECT, BUT IFWE DO NOT HAVE TIME REBUILDRELATIONSHIPS, NOTHING WILL WORKAFTER.ED: WE HAVE SHOWN VIDEO THROUGHOUR CONVERSATION.WE HAVE SHOWN TRADITIONALCLASSROOMS.THE CLASSROOM IN SEPTEMBER OFTH YEAR, IS IT GOING TO LOOKLIKE WHAT WE’VE BEEN SHOWN?MERRIE: IT CANNOT.SCHOOL IN GENERAL CANNOT LOOKLIKE IT LOOKED IN THE PAST.I THINK NOW IS THE MOMENT TORECOGNIZE THAT THE INTERSECTIONOF COVID-19 AND BLACK LIVESMATTER H EXPOSED THESTRUCTURAL RACISM AND CLASSISMTHAT HAS EXISTED IN SOCIETY ANDREPLICATED IN SCHOOLS.SCHOOLS WERE BROKEN BEFORBECAUSE OF A LACK OF INVESTMENT.THEY DID NOT SERVE ALL KIDSWELL, AND THEY CERTAINLY CANNOTSERVE ALL KIDS WELL NO WITH THEFEWER RESOURCES AND STAFF.JANET: HAS THE MTA PUT TOGETHERA PLAN AND OFFERED SOMETHING TOTHE ADMINISTRATION OR STATE TOSAY THIS IS WHAT A CLASSROOMpSHOULD LOOK LIKE AND HOW FARAPART CAN SHOULD BE?THIS IS HOW MANY CHILDREN SHOULDBE IN THE CLASSROOM?MORE SPECIFICALLY, EXACTLY STILLWHAT NEEDS TO PURCHASED FOREACH SCHOOL?MERRIE: YES, THE MTA IS WORKINGNOW WITH OUR OVER 300 LOCALTEACHER UNIONS TO DEVELOP A PLANTHAT CALLS FOR A PHASE TYPING INSTART.-- PHASED-IN START, THEOPPORTUNITY TO LEARN NEWCURRICULUM, IT WILL OUTLINE WHATWE NEED FO FUNDING, HEALTH ANDSAFETY PROTOCOLS, HOW WE HAVE TOMA ACCOMMODATIONS FOREDUCATORS WHO HAVEIMMUNOCOMPROMISED OR INHIGH-RISK CATEGORIES, AS WELL ASSTUDENTS.WE ARE PUTTING THIS TOGETHER ANDWE DO HAVE MEETINGS WITH THECOMMISSIONER TO TRY AND BARGAINAT A STATE LEVEL, MUCH MORECONSISTENTLY AROUND HEALTH,SAFETY AND WELLNESS OF EDUCATORSAND STUDENTS.JANET: WHEN WILL WE SEE THIS?IT IS JULY 5.MERRIE: IT IS COMING IN THE NEXTWEEK AND BEYOND, BUT I WANT TOCAUTION US THAT WE DID NOT RUSHINTO OPENING THE STATE ECONOMY.WE CANNOT RU IN TO OPENINGSCHOOLS JUST BECAUSE THECALENDAR SAYS WE HAVE TO RETURNBY AUGUST OR SO NUMBER.ED: MERRIE NAJIMY IS "O